Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5598 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:04 am Post subject:
Or is it an indication that lots of very good domain names without hyphens were bought years ago and are now used by long established, authority websites that have lots of links to them - exactly the type of sites that Google tends to rank highly?
Lots of different possibilities here. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 86 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject:
AllanGardyne wrote:
Or is it an indication that lots of very good domain names without hyphens were bought years ago and are now used by long established, authority websites that have lots of links to them - exactly the type of sites that Google tends to rank highly?
Lots of different possibilities here.
An interesting example of this is the band Van Halen's website. They registered their own site as van-halen.com in 1997, according to whois records. There is another "unauthorized" site vanhalen.com that was registered in 1999.
If you do a search for Van Halen in Google, the dashed domain comes up first in the results. This follows along with Google's claim that they want the top results to show the sites that searchers are most likely looking for.
Granted there's only one dash, but the dashed domain has been around longer and probably has more incoming links, so it follows along with Allan's comment.
I think that if there is a "dashed domain filter" it's going to affect the sites that use keyword-stuffed domains. And if there is a major site that gets penalized because of it, it's quite likely they would get reincluded fairly quickly upon request.
The recent bmw.de delisting/reinclusion shows how quickly Google can act when a major company is affected. They were reincluded within a week of being delisted, once they cleaned up the cloaking issue that caused the problem in the first place.
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 164 Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject:
Quote:
And if there is a major site that gets penalized because of it, it's quite likely they would get reincluded fairly quickly upon request.
Fair enough, but what about sites who do get hit with it unfairly but aren't major sites? I suspect most people won't be treated like BMW.
Whether or not all dashed domains are hit or none are, I'm still going after non-dashed from now on. With the possibility looming I'd rather not take a chance, even though it is (as Gary says) only one factor that's judged.
This is such an interesting discussion even though it's seriously deviated from the original posters question.. lol
Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 86 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject:
dabrat76 wrote:
Fair enough, but what about sites who do get hit with it unfairly but aren't major sites? I suspect most people won't be treated like BMW.
That's the catch, isn't it? This is one of the reasons I'm looking at various methods of traffic generation, not just natural search. They - Google especially - have too much control if you're relying on them exclusively.
If they pull the plug on your traffic - whether directly or as collateral damage when filtering spam - there's not much you can do unless you have the resources of a BMW or Ricoh (another high-profile delisting/reinclude).
I agree though, I'm avoiding dashed domains as well. I'm actually getting away from keyword based domains entirely and using things that are more "brandable" and will make sense whether in print or spoken.
That is the BIG problem - Google has way too much control, I'm seriously surprised they haven't been sued for being a monopoly.
The dashes idea is just not believable to me, but time will tell... I have noticed something... I recently deviated from making niche sites to make a very broad one - over everything home & garden... and something interesting is happening... it's been getting mainly Google traffic for a couple of months now... not like the usual month of G traffic one gets after 1st posting a site before it drops off into oblivion.
My theory is that Google's sandboxing niche sites - Matt Cutt's said it targets only certain industries - my guess is it's niche "industries."
My home site's earnings have been climbing and is now making more than any of my other 17 sites, and it's one of my newest! Fingers crossed things keep going this way.
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 164 Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject:
Quote:
They - Google especially - have too much control if you're relying on them exclusively.
Well, at least I've never gotten much from them so I'm not missing anything per se.. lol
Quote:
I'm actually getting away from keyword based domains entirely and using things that are more "brandable" and will make sense whether in print or spoken.
That's what I'm trying to do now also and have done with my last 2 domains. They contain a keyword, but only because it makes sense to - not just for the sake of SEO.
Quote:
That is the BIG problem - Google has way too much control, I'm seriously surprised they haven't been sued for being a monopoly.
I've often wondered the same thing, however, I guess they aren't REALLY a monopoly simply because of all the other SE's out there. But they are the only one that seems to count, at least for us.
Quote:
My home site's earnings have been climbing and is now making more than any of my other 17 sites, and it's one of my newest! Fingers crossed things keep going this way.
WTG! We'll have to exchange links yet AGAIN with my next site I'm doing... lol Fingers big time crossed for ya hon
It's that site at the bottom of my sig if you want to look at it - oh, and another thing I did differently is add a directory.
I hope it keeps up, I can use all the help I can get 'cause my February earnings have been horrendous!
I was thinking, if they are sandboxing niches, and if a domain has that niche keyword in it, maybe that would contribute to getting a penalty... so maybe there's something to that... if that makes sense.
dasheddomain.com and dashed-domain.com are both available. Shoul I buy them and so I can have a dashed domain without a dash?
John,
You're right on the money - look for other ways to grab traffic.
modestmouser...
Same results on some of my "general" domains. Hanging in very well.
All the Best,
Gary _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter
As I always say... don't believe a word I say -- test it!
I think people get side tracked on so many small things. What's the best
domain? Dashed or not dashed? The answer is simple. The one that does what you want it to do.
We all would like the perfect domain name.
If you purchased a dashed domain and purchased it for 10 years? It shows some long term view. Does that make a difference?
I buy both. Keep in mind if you're doing any PPC that you only have so many characters.
the-best-credit-cards-in-north-america.com may be a tad too long. But I guess thebestcreditcardsinnorthamerica.com would work better! Look ma no dashes!
All the Best, _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter
Speaking of credit card sites, I just went to Colin's CC site that he mentions in his book and that Rosalind mentioned on her site a week or so ago. In my MIE6 browser, I'm getting a Google PR0. Is anyone else seeing this? Perhaps I need to defrag my HD, eh?
Yes, you see it right. My credit card site is currently PR0. It was published on Jan 13 of this year. Google has not exported PageRank since publishing this site.
I am already receiving significant traffic from Google
To everyone else on this thread:
I think there is a huge mis-understanding on the hyphenated domains. A single hyphen will not land you in trouble however I asked Matt this point blank - Will dashed domains be impacted by future Google updates and he did say that they would be.
The view you have to take is that from Google and what looks better in their index. word1-word2 might be fine however word1-word2-word3 probably won't get you too far.
There have been comments to the effect that a newsletter I published was "fear marketing" - That is not what was intended. Matt Cutts told me that there would be an algorithm update coming towards the end of February and that in this update dashed domains would be adversely impacted. I simply wanted to get the word out that the update is coming and recommend changing strategies as it would provide website owners time to build out new sites and prepare.
I have been taken off guard enough in this business and thought it would be helpful to provide a "heads-up" on the Google update.
Mentioning the update in December would provide enough time to gain traffic as there is NO sandbox....it does not exist - The sandbox effect is really more like a quality filter than an aging process. I am able to get top ten rankings in a matter of weeks
Back to the whole domain name thing...go search your keywords and pay attention to what you see.
Here is another quote from Matt's blog - While this is not directly addressing domain names it might provide some insight into what Google is thinking about domains:
Quote:
Let?s take an example from the tiny fraction of the time that we may reserve the right to show the source page for a 302 off-domain redirect. If you run wget on www.sfgiants.com, you?ll get a 302 redirect to a different domain, and the url that you?ll get is pretty ugly: http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=sf . Please set aside that you are probably a site owner or webmaster for a second, and try to step into the shoes of a regular user on the street. If we had a taste test, how many users would prefer to click on ?sfgiants.com? and how many would prefer to click on ?sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=sf? ?
Note the phrase: the url that you?ll get is pretty ugly
How many honestly think the hyphenated domain name looks nice...just my opinion...however getting back to looking at search results it might just be the Google Quality Team's opinion too.
Gary had a very good point - Don't get hung up on so many things.
Keep trying, keep plugging away...try building a non-keyword focused - non-hyphenated domain and see what happens. Oh yeah, and stop believing in a sandbox.
I was in the room when Brett Tabke asked Matt about the sandbox.
If you read the WMW posting closely:
Quote:
In reply to a question from Brett Tabke, Matt said that there wasn't a sandbox, but the algorithm might affect some sites, under some circumstances, in a way that a webmaster would perceive as being sandboxed.
Note that Matt says there is something that webmasters would perceive as a sandbox...
Matt essentially answered Brett's question without answering it.
Matt asked for a show of hands of how many believed there was a sandbox and how many didn't believe there was. Many in attendance believed there was and then there were those that didn't. Matt proceded to say there's the answer.
I have built some niche sites and have not been affected as well as some broad topic sites - I have not seen the sandbox effect. Again, pay close attention to the word "perceive". It doesn't exist
So they don't officially call it a 'sandbox' but *it* is perceived as one... so there is a *something* in the algos creating a sandbox-effect, does that not make sense???
Argh.
Time will tell... no one can really say what Google is doing exactly... I do think (from what I've read in your blog, etc.) you're onto something though
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