Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:13 pm Post subject: Legality -- Google Stats Censure
During a meeting with our corporate attorney yesterday on a separate matter, I asked him about the legality of Google stating that it is a violation of their affiliate policy for an affiliate to reveal his/her statistics.
Our attorney is a serious person, who rarely smiles. I took a step back when he laughed from his belly and said, "Come again?"
He then told me that anybody can state in a policy or contrac anything they want to state. Some attorneys, he said, will even encourage the use of certain "warning" statements in contracts/policies. However, he said, their inclusion does not mean that they are legal or legally binding.
He said that here, in the states, this policy could be argued as a violation of First Ammendment rights. Google cannot interfere with my constitutional right to speak or write to another about the results of my web site in generating income thru click thrus. To say that I cannot discuss my results in terms of clicks, he said, is ludicrous. I own the web site. The clicks are coming from visitors to my site. They are recording the clicks but I could be argued to be the "owner" of the click-thru's.
I thought this interesting and therefore, thought it sufficiently worthwhile to share.
Has anybody else here mentioned this to their business attorney? It might be of benefit to have several attorney's reactions to that policy, which upon reflection, seems to violate common sense.
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:06 am Post subject: Your Attorney
Hi Sunni,
Don't take this the wrong way, but your attorney sounds clueless. (I have lawyers in my family, including my brother, so take this statement with a bit of levity).
Here's my thinking and why I would not listen to your lawyer:
You signed (electronically, by agreeing to the terms and conditions) Google's Adsense policy. You ARE legally bound. That is not to say that you couldn't hire an expensive lawyer (wouldn't they love THAT) if Google did decide to sue you or boot you for publicly revealing your figures. You could argue the 1st amendment until you're blue in the face, too. And maybe you'd win. And maybe you'd lose.
But even if you win, you'd lose. The time in cost and legal fees would more than offset anything you'd gain. And I HIGHLY doubt you'd win.
Google's Agreement is akin to what many other companies do in slightly different forms. For example, that technology company that just hired you in Silicon valley has this great new widget that is going to take the world by storm. They need a brilliant engineer like you, but to get that job they make you sign and agree to a non-disclosure form. If you learn all the trade secrets, quit, and go get a job for their competitor who pays you twice the amount to reveal what you know, that company you left can sue you till the cows come home.
Sure, you could fight it in court, decrying 1st amendment violations and all that jazz. You may win, but I really really doubt it.
Your website is surely your own, and is definitely private property. However, Google's Adsense ads are THEIR private and proprietary property and technology. Just because you serve the ads on your site does not mean you own them nor the statistics given to you about the ads.
You are legally bound by contract to agree to certain stipulations. If you don't, you have neither the right to the statistics nor the ads.
Your lawyer, in short, sounds like a fool. At least in my opinion.
Based on my reading of the terms & conditions and FAQ at AdSense, I think a little context needs to be added to this discussion.
If Google simply tries to prevent you from discussing stats, or another topic for that matter, then I agree with the attorney.
But that's not the whole story.
Google is informing you that a condition of your agreement with them is your not discussing stats. Google won't send someone out to physically restrain you and keep you from speaking.
But if you choose to violate the agreement by sharing your stats, then you are subject to the consequences. The consequences may include banning you from AdSense.
In my opinion, a more accurate portrayal would be if you returned to your attorney and asked this question:
"Google's terms indicate I cannot share my stats information. I agreed to those terms when I joined AdSense. If I choose to share my stats anyway, can Google implement consequences?"
My guess the attorney would answer "Yes" to this question.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5783 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:08 am Post subject:
Whoops! We just broke a different AdSense rule.
In the FAQ, #8 says:
"At this time, we require that publishers in Google AdSense not make any public announcement about Google and/or their relationship with Google without Google's prior written authorization."
We should have asked for Google's permission before we started discussing this _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:16 am Post subject: Fool
Please note that my company has retained the services of the law firm in question for just shy of 20 years. During that time, our attorney has served us well, dealing with many client-agency issues. As a PR agency, I wouldn't fathom not having a good attorney in our courtyard. A fool? I cannot even imagine applying that term to this attorney or his firm. And yes, I do know some fools. _________________ www.dogownersdigest.com & more
(remodeling underway)
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:56 am Post subject: Lawyer is off base
Sunni:
I'd have to agree that the lawyer is off base on that one ... First Amendment protections are against the governemnt restricting free speech. It's perfectly fine for two parties to contractually agree to restrict what they say, for instance a non-disclosure agreement.
Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 40 Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:44 am Post subject:
Not that Google could sue you for not doing what they say, but they can withhold your earnings and kick you from the program. _________________ http://www.fastfinancialfreedom.org - financial freedom is a myth (check out my brother's site)
http://www.fastfinancialfreedom.org - financial freedom is a myth (check out my brother's site)
Joined: 02 Aug 2003 Posts: 80 Location: Cranbrook, B.C. Canada
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:59 pm Post subject:
I am not an affiliate with Google's Adsense program but it is sounding like they want a little too much control over the stats. As Allan just stated, we are violating their aggreement again by discussing this. It seems evertime Adwords is discussed, one of "their rules" is broken. Oh well, they can't get me as I am not in the program, lol. _________________ "Now is the Time to try something New" Proverb I got from a fortune cookie in June 03, lol.
What is the big deal? All this is is Google's attempt to bully you into keeping quiet. I mean, how can they enforce the rule if someone posts the results of their campaign anonymously(is that spelled right?) ? Answer, they can't. I think your accounts will be safe, sooo, if anyone cares to share some real results, I am alllllll ears! Just don't use your real name.
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 4 Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject:
Legality isn't really the issue with google's non-disclosure policy. The fact is that this is Google's ball game, and if we want to play, we must abide by their rules.
I have done my share of griping about particular rules, but the fact is that it's Google that has invested its time and money into turning it into the giant that it is now. So, if we want to share in the profits of that popularity, then it's only reasonable that we honor their wishes. Google is acting in its own best interests - and that's exactly the way it should be!
So, if we reveal our Google revenues, are the men in dark suits going to come and take us away? Certainly not. But will Google decline to allow us to make money because of their AdSense? Yes, and that's exactly what we would do, if we were in their shoes. If we reveal earnings, and are tossed out of the program, we have no right to gripe. _________________ Sydney Johnston
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