Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:02 am Post subject: It's all a bit mystifying to me!
Hello everyone. This is my first post, so I'll try to be brief.
I feel like I've been using the web for about a third of my life but I don't really know very much about affiliate programmes. (Though I'm keen to learn, which is why I've joined this forum!)
I know that there are (broadly) three types of advertising on the web: a)pay-per-view, b) pay-per-click and c) pay-per-action.
To my mind, a) seems the fairest because that means if I show an advert on my site, I get paid for showing the advert.
b) seems a little less fair because then I only get paid if someone clicks on the advert. (But I'm thinking that someone might come to my site, see an advert several times, then mention the company to a friend who they know to be interested in that subject... and the friend will go straight to the site in question and the company won't recognise the part I played).
But as I understand it, affiliate programmes are almost entirely in the c) category. So I might show an advert 2000 times and the company might make 10 sales... but perhaps only one of those purchases was made by a customer who clicked directly from my site and made a purchase before the cookie expired. The other nine were results of spoken referrals to friends, returning after the cookie expired, noting the name and returning to the merchant site later (but not through my link) etc.
So my question to everyone here (and I really don't know, because I have yet to sign up for any affiliate programmes, I'm just now considering it) is how do you get the merchants to recognise all the non-direct referrals and branding that you're providing for them? It seems to me that unless you can get proper recognition for the promotional work you're doing, it's unlikely that you can remain viable
(Of course, I'm not talking from experience here... I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance before I take the plunge )
P.S. Don't you just know that someone says they'll "try to be brief", that they'll end up droning on for ages... ?!
I really need some help with this, so I know whether or not to go into an activity which is going to take hours more work... please can someone let me know what their experience is with PPA measuring against PPV and PPC? Do you feel like the advertiser is just taking advantage of you or is there a different way to look at things? Thanks.
Also... is anybody aware of PPC affiliate programmes?
This seems a much fairer system to me (but possibly I'll see things in a different light after I've heard the opinions of some more experienced people about PPA).
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Ok, now as far as Pay per view (impressions), Pay per click and Pay per action:
Each has an appropriate place or time for use.
I use per click and per action affiliate programs since my site isn't high traffic. At present traffic levels, it would be unlikely I would make $10 a month with per view. The proof of conversion in per view is on the advert not with the publisher.
Per click programs, like Adsense, can be lucrative if targeted properly to content. It is unusual that they would pay more per click than a per action program. However, since there are always more clicks than action, they can compete with the per action programs. The proof of conversion in per click programs can be split between the merchant and the publisher. With Adsense however the conversion is often with the advert itself, but placement and color can be a contributing factor in some cases.
Per action programs require the viewer to do something in order for you to earn. This is the hardest thing to achieve of all 3 types you mention. Your site must convert and your merchant must convert. However, the payment per action is usually considerable higher than the other two types of adverts.
All 3 types require the publisher to work and develop the site, content, sales letter, whatever, to get traffic and keep it growing in order to earn. The per click and per action types require more of the publisher but also compensate better.
I like to use variety in the programs I promote, within the subject of my site, to keep interest high, but also to diversify the offerings on my site. My income is not dependent on any one merchant or type of program.
Is it fair? If the merchants live up to their promises and payments, then yes, I think all 3 are fair. Keep in mind, the alternative is either to not get paid for these at all, or to sell your own products exclusively. Not everyone is willing or comfortable creating and selling their own products.
Debs _________________ Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: It's all a bit mystifying to me!
Hello Warburton.
Quote:
how do you get the merchants to recognise all the non-direct referrals and branding that you're providing for them?
You don't. These have to be written off, but factored in to your calculations. You can minimise the risks by choosing good tracking and lifetime customer programs offering residual income.
Quote:
It seems to me that unless you can get proper recognition for the promotional work you're doing, it's unlikely that you can remain viable
Other than time, online marketing costs are very low. As Timothy Warnock and others will tell you, it isn't as hard as a real business!
Also, testing and tracking is both cheap and much more effective than offline, so it's easier to know what's really working, if you go about things in the right way.
Hope this helps,
Charlie. _________________ "Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx
My main question is still: "...how do you get the merchants to recognise all the non-direct referrals and branding that you're providing for them?"
It's not as if they look at your target demographic and measure your unique monthly visitors, is it?
I just... don't want merchants exploiting all the work I've put into my site under the pretence that they will provide me with a revenue source when all they're actually going to get is a lot of free advertising.
I come from a offline publishing background and it's really difficult for me to come to terms with giving away advertising estate for free - not to mention traffic! - on the basis that I may (or may not...) be compensated for it. If I'm not going to be compensated for my work, I'd rather post creatives for charities for free than do the same for corporates.
Another thing that worries me is that a number of affiliate programmes I've seen give a set price commission per order, rather than making the commission a percentage of the order. Surely that's unreasonable?
Are the relatively harsh terms against publishers because (as far as the merchants are concerned) there's a never ending stream of publishers and so they can afford to treat everyone on lowest common denominator terms, which I suppose is a lot more cost effective than actually evaluating each and every publisher?
I'm sorry I'm being a little reticent to dip my toe into the water, but I want to be absolutely clear on the risks and benefits before I make this kind of decision and I thought that here might be the best place to come to get a feel for the industry!
My main question is still: "...how do you get the merchants to recognise all the non-direct referrals and branding that you're providing for them?"
As I said, if they operate a commission on sales model, you don't. Think of yourself like a broker paid on commission. You may have to pay outgoings to promote yourself and your merchants, but these have to be paid even if you don't earn any commissions.
Quote:
I just... don't want merchants exploiting all the work I've put into my site under the pretence that they will provide me with a revenue source when all they're actually going to get is a lot of free advertising.
The name of the game is selecting honest merchants, with good conversions and tracking, and preselling their products. It's up to the affiliate to decide whose products to promote.
Quote:
Another thing that worries me is that a number of affiliate programmes I've seen give a set price commission per order, rather than making the commission a percentage of the order. Surely that's unreasonable?
This is a huge misconception amongst established affiliates, let alone newbies. You need to get away from the concept of percentages, and consider dollars per click. We're still talking about being paid for sales, but dollars per click is a measure of the average $ commission you earn for each click through to the merchant's site. This takes into account $ commission per sale and merchant sales page conversion rate.
Secondly, you need to think lifetime value of a customer you refer if they offer residual or lifetime commissions on future sales.
To be honest, it might be better to read a few articles on the main associateprograms.com site.
Quote:
Are the relatively harsh terms against publishers because (as far as the merchants are concerned) there's a never ending stream of publishers and so they can afford to treat everyone on lowest common denominator terms, which I suppose is a lot more cost effective than actually evaluating each and every publisher?
There is strong competition between merchants for quality affiliates. I think you are painting an unreasonably harsh picture of the overall conditions for affiliates. Programs vary of course, but the successful programs have learnt they must pay fairly, and do so.
Hope this helps,
Charlie. _________________ "Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx
I agree with everything Charlie said. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide who you promote and who you don't. If you don't like the terms, don't use that merchant period!
It's quite common to test merchants and if they don't convert your referrals, to move them out and another merchant in. And merchants know it. We couldn't make the money without their program, but they might not make the money without our sites either. It's a reciprocal relationship, or should be
Allan offers excellent articles and resources on affiliate promotion and programs. Do look over the newsletter archives also.
If you choose to offer charity promotion on your site as opposed to affiliate programs, that is certainly your option. But do keep one thing in mind, until you have a viable site, with good traffic, and conversion, you don't have valuable real estate, and consequently, no basis upon which to negotiate better terms with merchants.
And yes, in a lot of instances, you can negotiate better terms with merchants than those posted generically.
Debs _________________ Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Thanks ever so much both of you, Charlie and Debs - you've given me a lot of things to think about. I especially liked your point, Charlie, about reconceptualising everything in PPC terms - that was well made... at least then it's possible to make comparisons and evaluate all the merchants on the same criteria.
I've signed up on a few networks this weekend, so I'll do some experiments over the next few weeks and see if I can start to see patterns emerge.
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